objarni's picture

Updated OS and some worries

I updated to Ubuntu 9.04 with some hassle. I took a deep breath and went for the amd64-version, and so far it has been a little struggle with Flash, but that's all. The system feels a bit more responsive.

But a friend of mine reminded me of the thing with mono+WinForms: winforms isn't installed by default in Ubuntu. This is disappointing, as it means apps targeting windows+ubuntu will have to distribute the winforms/mono DLLs or else have separate installs/zips/debs for each OS.

In the long rung, having a single .ZIP for the whole application might be too simplified. After all, to use sound in the app definitely means separating the distribution files per OS.

Oh well just some whining :) Have to learn how to create .deb files (Mac guys out there: what is a good redistributable format for you?)


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objarni's picture

I'll comment myself since I'm so schizophrenic:

The boot-time, timed from "graphics card boot screen" until "ubuntu start sound rings" went from 60 seconds to 40 seconds under new Ubuntu. Yay :)

the Fiddler's picture

Indeed, libmono-winforms2.0.cil isn't installed by default. If you create a .deb, you can define that your app depends on this package and it will get installed automatically. The problem is how to automate the process so that you don't have to create debs by hand for each distro. Maybe openSUSE's build service (and the section on debs) can be of help here?

I haven't tested this, but I think OpenTK will run without WinForms as long as a) you don't use Windows and b) you don't use GLControl. I'm toying with the idea to remove the WinForms dependency completely (GLControl would go on its own assembly), but that's not a priority at the moment.

Boot time is a little better on Jaunty, but still a little on the slow side (for example, my lightly-tweaked ArchLinux boots on 15 seconds). The artwork is nice, I like the new GDM theme and the 'New Wave' theme and I think there's a new sound theme, too? Unfortunately, I'm seeing regressions compared to 8.10: the volume buttons no longer work and the new notification daemon is pretty but useless.

Question: do breakpoints work in MonoDevelop? They never seem to be hit here.

objarni's picture

I think it is a good idea to remove dependencies whenever it is possible.

As you say, having GLControl as a separate project, would be such a thing.

Also, another idea would be to have a GLWidget (for Gtk#) as a separate project.

Then the kernel of OpenTK would be GL+AL wrapping, having only a "NativeWindow" to support, not all the baggage of WinForms.

Is there any wiki-like place to discuss distribution issues regarding OpenTK-based apps..? The book is fine but a bit "stiff" - there is no collaboration since it feels too "official". Users dare not write in the book (including me). A separate wiki somewhere else maybe, with OpenTK-users discussing ideas..? A place similar to allegro.cc, which is completely separate from allegro library. Encouraging collaborative-swarm-like editing, with less emphasis on rigour/correctness (it will be fixed as time passes though). Of course the main site would grow from this too - since well-written pages can be copied/fixed directly into the book of OpenTK.com. Just an idea.. There are tons of free wiki hosts out there, so that is not a problem.

JTalton's picture

Question: do breakpoints work in MonoDevelop? They never seem to be hit here.
I tried Ubuntu 9.04 beta a couple of weeks ago and was able to use the debugger just fine. You do need to make sure to install monodevelop support for mdb in addition to MonoDevelop.

the Fiddler's picture

@objarni: Use the experimental book: http://www.opentk.com/node/add/book and select 'experimental book pages' as the parent. Should be more discoverable, I guess.

@JTalton: monodevelop-debugger-mdb is installed, the debugger seems to start up fine (I can see it loading dependencies in the output window), but it either hangs or it doesn't work at all. I might be hitting a bug related to OpenTK as I've seen it work with other projects (but then again I was using Mono 2.4). I'll see if I can repro the issue and file a bug report.

objarni's picture

@Fiddler

Yeah the experimental pages are better than nothing, but the most prominent problem is the "author" concept. There is no "author" concept of wiki pages. Is it possible to hide that information?

JTalton's picture

@Fiddler: monodevelop - I didn't try OpenTK with the debugger, just a test project.

objarni's picture

@Fiddler:

Actually disabling author by content type is available in drupal:

http://drupal.org/node/291629

the Fiddler's picture

@objarni: I know, but this site is still on D5 (and will stay there until D7).